Comments on: Different discourses!

By: Eve Thirkle

Eve Thirkle — Sat, 29 Jan 2005 04:50:39 +0000

“the most startling finding was that teachers believed that child and home were the most important determining factor.” - I’m not surprised about that here in Britain - the determinant for spending on SEN [non-statemented] provision is the number of pupils on ‘free’ dinners - thus allying the performance straight to the home life and possible deprivation.!

By: Stephen Powell

Stephen Powell — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:51:43 +0000

Hi Nick, nope no mention of peer groups. I suspect it isn’t that he would dismiss this as an important factor, more that it just isn’t the thrust of his work and I suppose it is one of the factors that teachers can’t do much about?

Thanks Stephen, I couldn’t remeber the name of the book and he does in fact have a new book out in a month or so. There is also a report on http://www.minedu.govt.nz/ somewhere but after a quick glance I couldn’t find it.

By: Stephen Harlow

Stephen Harlow — Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:28:00 +0000

Thanks for sharing this Stephen. I’ve added my two cents worth elsewhere, but you maybe interested in reading Russell’s book Culture Counts. At the time of publishing he does not have NZ research evidence to quantify the importance of the teacher-learner relationship, but nevertheless emphasises its importance and interestingly suggests narrative therapy as a useful tool in supporting the relationship (p. 159). I’m particularly curious about the whole idea of narrative in education, so again thanks for helping me make the connection.

Andy, Bishop also responds to the peer pressure issue in the Maori context in Culture Counts (p. 154). While he recognises it as important, he believes teaching that connects with learners’ culture is more powerful—culture counts.

By: Nick Austin

Nick Austin — Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:51:00 +0000

Interesting stuff this. Did he say anything about the influence/importance of the child’s peer group, both at home and at school? From my own experiences both as an educator and a parent I’ve noticed how both small subversive groups of aspiring anarchists form their own sub-culture within the classroom, much in the same way as groups of switched-on, well motivated kids will study together and push one another.

Of course teachers are important, as are caring parents but I can’t help but think that peers are of equal impoortance…so maybe we need to explain to kids how important this is. On the negative side, all those ‘best mates’ who wreak chaos don’t tend to stay as such once they’ve left the school - so no real investment in friendship there, then.

By: stephen powell

stephen powell — Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:27:44 +0000

I think that in the NZ context, it isn’t possible to overstate the sensitivity with regards to ‘colonialism’ and how this particularly impacts on the Maori students as thier home culture can be very different. However, I would agree with you Andy that there is much in this as a way of analysing and understanding the UK’s educational systems.

By: Andy

Andy — Sat, 10 Jul 2004 15:51:30 +0000

“the most startling finding was that teachers believed that child and home were the most important determining factor”

Well yes. Teachers are always blaming the parents, backgrounds and social conditions. Just spend 5 minutes in any UK staffroom and you can hear this. The ethnic and colonial factors probably have little or nothing to do with it, it’s more a question of class consciousness with teachers being led to believe they have some sort of stakeholding in social improvment and then showing a general disdain for working class conditions and aspirations.